{"id":3298,"date":"2021-04-05T07:39:22","date_gmt":"2021-04-05T07:39:22","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.vintagefiets.be\/?p=3298"},"modified":"2022-06-27T16:54:26","modified_gmt":"2022-06-27T16:54:26","slug":"hoe-kun-je-weten-wie-het-fietsframe-heeft-gemaakt","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.vintagefiets.be\/en\/hoe-kun-je-weten-wie-het-fietsframe-heeft-gemaakt\/","title":{"rendered":"How can you know who made the bicycle frame?"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>Imagine that one day carbon frames will become a collector's item and you've found a frame with the decals missing and you want to know who the maker was? Actually, this is an easy question because most carbon frames come from Asia. This is more about the design, which is still made by the best-known bicycle manufacturers.<\/p>\n<p>And the question whether carbon frames will ever become a collector's item? That is certainly possible, but we will have to wait a long time for that. We also have to wait and see the answer to the question whether carbon frames will stand the test of time.<\/p>\n<h2><strong>Engraved Bicycle Frames<\/strong><\/h2>\n<p>It was different with the manufacture of steel frames. The tubes (Columbus, Reynolds, Tange, Vitus, Oria, ...) and connections (lugs) arrived at the bicycle repair shop, who welded them together themselves. To give it its own brand or name, the bicycle was engraved, they are also called pantos. This could be done in various places: lugs, bracket, front fork, head tube, chainstay, seatstay (to connect the top and seat tube).<\/p>\n<div id=\"attachment_3231\" style=\"width: 494px\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.vintagefiets.be\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/03\/Chesini-panto.jpg\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-3231\" class=\"size-full wp-image-3231\" src=\"https:\/\/www.vintagefiets.be\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/03\/Chesini-panto.jpg\" alt=\"Chesini\" width=\"484\" height=\"1000\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.vintagefiets.be\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/03\/Chesini-panto.jpg 484w, https:\/\/www.vintagefiets.be\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/03\/Chesini-panto-480x992.jpg 480w\" sizes=\"auto, (min-width: 0px) and (max-width: 480px) 480px, (min-width: 481px) 484px, 100vw\" \/><\/a><p id=\"caption-attachment-3231\" class=\"wp-caption-text\">Chesini logo engraved in the head tube<\/p><\/div>\n<div id=\"attachment_1452\" style=\"width: 460px\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.vintagefiets.be\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/04\/Colnero-fiets-03.jpg\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-1452\" class=\"wp-image-1452 size-full\" src=\"https:\/\/www.vintagefiets.be\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/04\/Colnero-fiets-03.jpg\" alt=\"vintage Belgische koersfiets\" width=\"450\" height=\"800\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.vintagefiets.be\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/04\/Colnero-fiets-03.jpg 450w, https:\/\/www.vintagefiets.be\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/04\/Colnero-fiets-03-169x300.jpg 169w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 450px) 100vw, 450px\" \/><\/a><p id=\"caption-attachment-1452\" class=\"wp-caption-text\">personal touch in the lugs<\/p><\/div>\n<p>The bracket was also widely used to place the logo, own initials or own characteristic or figure. The bottom bracket was drilled out for this, which also resulted in some weight savings, which was extremely important for a professional cyclist. Components were also fully drilled out to save weight (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.vintagefiets.be\/en\/doorboorde-componenten-om-gewicht-te-besparen-of-esthetisch\/\">zie artikel doorboorde componenten &#8211; om gewichtsbesparing of puur esthetisch?<\/a>).<\/p>\n<p>Colnagos can be recognized in this way by the cloverleaf at the bottom of the bracket, Benotto and De Rosa by the heart-shaped bore, Moser by the initials fm, Chesini by the 2 elongated bores, Willier Triestina by the 6 elongated bores, Concorde by the name, and so on. .<\/p>\n<div id=\"attachment_2018\" style=\"width: 939px\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.vintagefiets.be\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/06\/Concorde-gravures-frame.jpg\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-2018\" class=\"size-full wp-image-2018\" src=\"https:\/\/www.vintagefiets.be\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/06\/Concorde-gravures-frame.jpg\" alt=\"Concorde fietsmerk\" width=\"929\" height=\"617\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.vintagefiets.be\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/06\/Concorde-gravures-frame.jpg 929w, https:\/\/www.vintagefiets.be\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/06\/Concorde-gravures-frame-300x199.jpg 300w, https:\/\/www.vintagefiets.be\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/06\/Concorde-gravures-frame-768x510.jpg 768w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 929px) 100vw, 929px\" \/><\/a><p id=\"caption-attachment-2018\" class=\"wp-caption-text\">Concorde engraved in the bottom bracket<\/p><\/div>\n<div id=\"attachment_3255\" style=\"width: 1010px\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.vintagefiets.be\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/03\/Benotto-model.jpg\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-3255\" class=\"wp-image-3255 size-full\" src=\"https:\/\/www.vintagefiets.be\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/03\/Benotto-model.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1000\" height=\"563\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.vintagefiets.be\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/03\/Benotto-model.jpg 1000w, https:\/\/www.vintagefiets.be\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/03\/Benotto-model-980x552.jpg 980w, https:\/\/www.vintagefiets.be\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/03\/Benotto-model-480x270.jpg 480w\" sizes=\"auto, (min-width: 0px) and (max-width: 480px) 480px, (min-width: 481px) and (max-width: 980px) 980px, (min-width: 981px) 1000px, 100vw\" \/><\/a><p id=\"caption-attachment-3255\" class=\"wp-caption-text\">The typical heart at the bottom of Benotto's bracket<\/p><\/div>\n<div id=\"attachment_3304\" style=\"width: 1034px\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.vintagefiets.be\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/04\/Willier-bracket-scaled.jpg\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-3304\" class=\"wp-image-3304 size-large\" src=\"https:\/\/www.vintagefiets.be\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/04\/Willier-bracket-scaled-e1617552098660-1024x496.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1024\" height=\"496\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.vintagefiets.be\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/04\/Willier-bracket-scaled-e1617552098660-980x551.jpg 980w, https:\/\/www.vintagefiets.be\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/04\/Willier-bracket-scaled-e1617552098660-480x270.jpg 480w\" sizes=\"auto, (min-width: 0px) and (max-width: 480px) 480px, (min-width: 481px) and (max-width: 980px) 980px, (min-width: 981px) 1024px, 100vw\" \/><\/a><p id=\"caption-attachment-3304\" class=\"wp-caption-text\">Engraved bracket from Willier frames<\/p><\/div>\n<p>Of course, the brands also changed their logo over time, which means that a different figure can appear on a bracket for the same brand. It also happened more often that they just engraved their name at the bottom of the bracket like with Pinarello, Bianchi, Gazelle, Concorde<\/p>\n<p>Some brands also reworked the connection in the seatstays. The butterfly male at Gazelle cycling is typical. Colnago, Eddy Merckx and others put their logo on it.<\/p>\n<div id=\"attachment_3206\" style=\"width: 573px\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.vintagefiets.be\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/02\/Gazelle-fiets-herkennen.jpg\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-3206\" class=\"size-full wp-image-3206\" src=\"https:\/\/www.vintagefiets.be\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/02\/Gazelle-fiets-herkennen.jpg\" alt=\"Gazelle fietsen\" width=\"563\" height=\"1000\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.vintagefiets.be\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/02\/Gazelle-fiets-herkennen.jpg 563w, https:\/\/www.vintagefiets.be\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/02\/Gazelle-fiets-herkennen-480x853.jpg 480w\" sizes=\"auto, (min-width: 0px) and (max-width: 480px) 480px, (min-width: 481px) 563px, 100vw\" \/><\/a><p id=\"caption-attachment-3206\" class=\"wp-caption-text\">The typical Gazelle butterfly male<\/p><\/div>\n<div id=\"attachment_2054\" style=\"width: 810px\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.vintagefiets.be\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/06\/Colnago-Nuovo-Mexico-09.jpg\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-2054\" class=\"wp-image-2054 size-full\" src=\"https:\/\/www.vintagefiets.be\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/06\/Colnago-Nuovo-Mexico-09.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"800\" height=\"387\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.vintagefiets.be\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/06\/Colnago-Nuovo-Mexico-09.jpg 800w, https:\/\/www.vintagefiets.be\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/06\/Colnago-Nuovo-Mexico-09-300x145.jpg 300w, https:\/\/www.vintagefiets.be\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/06\/Colnago-Nuovo-Mexico-09-768x372.jpg 768w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\" \/><\/a><p id=\"caption-attachment-2054\" class=\"wp-caption-text\">logo on swingarm<\/p><\/div>\n<p>Identifying a frame of which the decals are missing is not always so easy and even experts sometimes have trouble associating the right bicycle mechanic with it, but that makes it all the more fun.<\/p>\n<p>On the other hand, many bicycle manufacturers also put a decal with their own brand on a frame that they bought. We call these marks sticker marks or adhesive marks. Some examples are Colnero, Borghini, Giovanni<\/p>\n<h2><strong>Engraved front forks<\/strong><\/h2>\n<p>The logo or initials were usually engraved on the front forks. Some examples are the cloverleaf at Colnago, the letter B at Bianchi, GP at Pinarello, the name at Benotto, GT at Gios, H at Herwerden<\/p>\n<p>logo\u2019s at Gazelle, Concorde, Eddy Merckx, Chesini, Cinelli<\/p>\n<div id=\"attachment_2050\" style=\"width: 810px\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.vintagefiets.be\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/06\/Colnago-Nuovo-Mexico-05.jpg\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-2050\" class=\"wp-image-2050 size-full\" src=\"https:\/\/www.vintagefiets.be\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/06\/Colnago-Nuovo-Mexico-05.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"800\" height=\"387\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.vintagefiets.be\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/06\/Colnago-Nuovo-Mexico-05.jpg 800w, https:\/\/www.vintagefiets.be\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/06\/Colnago-Nuovo-Mexico-05-300x145.jpg 300w, https:\/\/www.vintagefiets.be\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/06\/Colnago-Nuovo-Mexico-05-768x372.jpg 768w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\" \/><\/a><p id=\"caption-attachment-2050\" class=\"wp-caption-text\">The Colnago logo on the front fork of Colnago frames<\/p><\/div>\n<p>This article was just an introduction to clarify that many bicycle frames and forks are engraved. An overview of the figures and logos can be found in the <a href=\"https:\/\/www.vintagefiets.be\/en\/fietsmerken-en-hun-pantos\/\">article bicycle brands and their pantos<\/a><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Wanneer de decals op een vintage racefiets frame ontbreken is het niet altijd eenvoudig om de maker ervan te weten te komen. Gelukkig graveerden de meesten hun frames en voorvorken<\/p>","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":3304,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_et_pb_use_builder":"","_et_pb_old_content":"","_et_gb_content_width":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[72],"tags":[77,8,223,508,161,650,769,76,111,112],"class_list":["post-3298","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-blog","tag-bianchi","tag-cinelli","tag-colnago","tag-concorde","tag-eddy-merckx","tag-gazelle","tag-gios-torino","tag-pinarello","tag-retro-fietsen","tag-vintage-fietsen"],"aioseo_notices":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.vintagefiets.be\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/3298","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.vintagefiets.be\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.vintagefiets.be\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.vintagefiets.be\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.vintagefiets.be\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=3298"}],"version-history":[{"count":8,"href":"https:\/\/www.vintagefiets.be\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/3298\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":4079,"href":"https:\/\/www.vintagefiets.be\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/3298\/revisions\/4079"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.vintagefiets.be\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/3304"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.vintagefiets.be\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=3298"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.vintagefiets.be\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=3298"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.vintagefiets.be\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=3298"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}